Dec 02 2006
Faith and Sexuality
I remember back in the early days of AOL. I was still a confused teenager, trying to make sense of my sexuality. Reconciling both my faith and sexuality was a journey for me, and looking back – I was glad I went through it because without that experience under my belt today, I would easily turn away from my faith.
I used to open a member room called ‘gaychristians’ on AOL chatrooms. Before you know it, the room will be full. There will be bashers and faithfuls together in the same room discussing the relationship between Christ and homosexuals.
I made lots of friends there – and through that room, I started my slow process to reconcile my faith with my sexuality. I hope you will share your experiences with me, so come along.
Greetings in the name of Jesus Christ.
First of all I would like for you to realize what I’m about to say is not a diss, bash, or anything else to put you down, but I’m still trying to figure out where the ‘title’ gay-christian comes from, when the Bible presents verses against men having sex w/men, and women w/women?
You probably know the verses I’m referring to (old and new testament), and while I realize the Bible has been translated in various languages, and in different versions, and that God/Jesus have ‘called out’ those who will serve them by ‘their’ Word, then what exactly is a ‘gay-christian’ if the Word of God speaks against it?
I’m asking because saying that you and others were ‘born that way’, makes it look as if God/Jesus are ‘double-minded’ and here’s why.
How could ‘they’ say men having sex with men, and women w/women is an abomination, then turn around and say people are ‘born’ this way (also, I’ve never seen it presented in the scriptures saying people are born gay, if I missed it, can you please give me the exact location so that I can read them for myself?)? Am ‘I’ confused or is there something I’m missing in the Bible?
Once again, I’m not trying to make you or anyone else from the gay community look or even feel bad by what I’m saying, but I just want to know for those of us who name the name of God and Jesus, do we believe ALL of what the Bible says as we’re supposed to, or have convinced ourselves that “they” are mistaken?
What’s ‘you’re’ take on this ‘via the Bible’ if at all possible? I ask for your perspective via the Word, because God/Jesus have never let me down even one time, but us humans are pretty good at deluding ourselves. Your input please? Take care and be blessed.
Hello Bea!
Peace in the name of Jesus Christ.
I understand exactly where you’re coming from and I appreciate you pointing out exactly things that you don’t quite fathom. Let me break down my answers so you can easily read them.
1. Where does the ‘title’ gay-christian come from?
It’s simply a name. I am a Christian and I happen to be gay. So, I am calling myself a Gay Christian. Nothing more, nothing less.
2. God/Jesus have ‘called out’ those who will serve them by ‘their’ Word, then what exactly is a ‘gay-christian’ if the Word of God speaks against it?
This has been a conversation for a very long time and it has been answered multiple times by religious scholars as well. I am not going to answer it since I don’t claim to be a scholar. I will however say that I only believe one thing that Jesus said,
“Love God, with all your heart, with all your mind and with all your soul and your neighbor as yourself. That is the greatest commandment.”
3. How could ‘they’ say men having sex with men, and women w/women is an abomination, then turn around and say people are ‘born’ this way (also, I’ve never seen it presented in the scriptures saying people are born gay, if I missed it, can you please give me the exact location so that I can read them for myself?)?
I will not attempt to answer this question as well – - but let me point out a youtube video for you to watch and tell me afterwards whether anything in the bible, written or unwritten should be translated literally… Here’s the clip.
I Think the term gay Christan originated just as the term Christan did. For derogatory purposes.
But thats not why I’m here. I want to make some points.
First you can’t be gay and Christan-not to demean but this is what thus said the lord.
If you think the Old Testament is done it is.
but our sexuality is human nature. All things created on week one they were created to work a certain way. Just as sexuality.
All things concerning our sexual nature from the O.T. re still observed. Or our sexual practices.
Bestiality,incest, and homosexuality. Paul condemns the effeminate in 1st cor; 6:9-10 romans 1:27 says that it is error to commit such. the natural(sexually established) use(sex) or a woman. Jude 7 says sodom and gommorah were destroyed for goin after strange flesh. not angel flesh.
Strange means outside of sexual and God defined nature.
I could list all refrences but if you want the truth
LOOK IT UP.
IN CHRIST JESUS,
SMASHMOUTH.
Smashmouth – - the same answer as I have always given…watch the video and let me know…
I listened to the video – the Law was given to show the people all that sin is, not to promote such behavior. You call yourself a Christian – so you believe Jesus died to grant forgiveness for sin – all of them, including the practice of homosexuality. You do not need special forgiveness because you call yourself gay – calling yourself gay is a choice, regardless of your sexual orientation.
Let’s say I can see nothing wrong with murder and because there are a lots of murders in the world I believe I am born that way and feel the urge to murder, so I call myself a Murderer Christian – I have committed no sin until I actually murder someone.
God gives each person a specific will and specific physical and emotional and mental attributes. We are called as Christians to mold ourselves into the image of Jesus. For me a Murderer Christian I must daily fight the battle to not give in to my God-given urges, but rather fight them to make myself more like Jesus.
If you believe you are a gay Christian, then you must follow the same principles as other non-gay Christians. Your cross to bear is likely singleness and to be an example for other gays who wish to be Christians – you get nor do you need any special treatment, laws, consideration or get a pass in sexual behavior.
You are so right about what all Christians are called to do.
Please accept Jesus’ Love from a Conservative, Bible-believing, White 67 year old Male with 3 children and 4 grandchildren and 2 great-grandchildren who prays you win your battles and ask you pray I win mine.
Hey, i am having a rather tough time with a friend of mine, i am gay and recently found my way back to the church through this friend who is also gay and christian but he denies it, identifies as straight so he can remain involved in youth ministry and sleeps with men on the side secretly. we have arguments over what the bible does and does not say and why it says it. I personally am of the opinion that the bible – as a result of being written and re-written by the hand of man – is flawed. and he is of the opinion that it is god inspired and therefore not flawed in any way. When i bring up topics such as the ones raised in the video clip you pointed out he likes to enforce that that is OT and as a result of Jesus’s death on the cross for us the new testament is all that matters. my issue with this is that you cant have the old with the new, and also who decided that the sins that went into the new testament deserved to be there? im pretty sure it wasn’t god?! im struggling to find a balance for myself with my faith and my sexuality and im finding it even more struggling that he refuses to even consider the opinions of someone else because his particular church “have it right”… (clearly everyone else has it wrong? lol) didn’t Jesus and god only speak of love and acceptance? and even then the books are written by men with their own personal opinions and views of a world which is now extinct? my personal belief is that god required us to breed as a result of our 1: lack of numbers and 2:lack of other means of reproduction… we not only now have methods of reproduction which don’t require sex but we are abundant in numbers! so much so we cant maintain a world wide level of quality of life! so confused please help!!! xo bless you.
sorry i meant you cant have the new without the old haha :s
Hello Michael,
Thanks for leaving a comment. I feel your pain. I had to struggle the same way just like your friend did. I was in denial for a long time. I have often asked myself, “How could I even claim myself to be a Christian when I am lying about my sexuality all the time?” I pretended to be straight when I am not so that society can accept who I pretend to be.
I can only say that until your friend is able to accept his sexuality and admit to himself that being gay is as normal as being straight. I feel bad that he has to lie about who he really is because I know that he feels doubly guilty after having these sex acts with men on the side. It could be very destructive in the long term.
I wouldn’t go as far as saying that the bible is flawed – I would only go as far to say that we need to read the bible according to the time it was written. For example, we eat pork now. We touch pig skin. Those were things that were forbidden before.
Remember that Christ came to fulfill the law and not to change the law. But his coming has one message that fulfilled all laws, including the 10 commandments. And that message is “LOVE”.
If everyone followed Christ’s golden rule, nobody would judge anyone, kill anyone, lie to anyone, etc.
I don’t like going into bible verses to explain what is and what is not a sin because it can get too complicated and that is what Christ came for… it should not be that difficult to fulfill God’s wishes and command and it could simply be done through this:
“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”
That’s all I live by.
Let’s pray for your friend as well.. and let’s pray for each other.
God bless.
Hello J.R. Abbot,
Thanks for visiting my blog and offering your opinion about homosexuality and your thoughts about it. It is surely welcome.
I don’t however agree with your equation of a murderer to a homosexual. I would probably equate homosexuality more to be as natural as you and I having the need to go to the bathroom. It’s a natural process and it’s something that cannot be controlled. I am who I am.
Being homosexual doesn’t give us the license to murder, to abuse children, to be promiscuous, to lie, to disobey our parents and all the rest of whatever we believe are sins.
It took me a long time to understand what God’s plan for me is. And that plan is to be true to myself, not deny the love of another person (please don’t equate this to promiscuous sex as even gay christians believe that having sex outside of a committed relationship is a sin).
Thanks for your comment and sure, please continue to pray for us as we will for you. God bless.
Reading some of the posts on this blog, I can’t help but ask what makes some Christians so sure that homosexuality is wrong? The bible? Really? Perhaps the fact that the word “homosexual” was inserted into the English translations used today (staring around the 1950ies) and that the real meaning of the Greek words definitely does not connote “homosexual” as we know it today but as more and more serious bible scholars assert, people who engage in deviant sexual acts whilst worshiping idols (temple prostitutes)? This is also the context in which the prohibition in Leviticus was understood which is part of the levitical code which also stipulates that one cannot wear garments made of two kinds of fabric or eat shrimp etc. More and more churches seriously considering the subject of homosexuality realize that it is a normal variant of sexuality found throughout nature (in humans as well as in animals). Also, scientific evidence shows that sexual orientation in humans is fixed by the age of five approximately and that only a small subset of the entire homosexual population is able to undergo change (eg sequential bisexuals), those who are very close to the middle of the Keynes scale. Btw, that change can go both ways. A sizable portion of the homosexual population is not able to change their orientation despite of what ex-gay ministries might suggest. Those can still deny who they are, repress their sexuality and enter into heterosexual marriage but at a far greater cost to themselves and in many cases their spouses and children than first anticipated (ie when sometimes only years later the growing burden of denial becomes too heavy to bear and they find themselves incapable of continuing to function heterosexually. Only then children may have been born and the lives of them as well as their spouses are destroyed). The aforementioned fact that the Bible does not clearly discuss the subject of homosexuality at all but rather condemns idolatrous sexual practices, the fact that science shows that sexual orientation is not chosen and has existed throughout history in every culture at about constant levels (btw, we know that Scripture does not negate science and vice versa), the fact that homosexuals who come out have done so facing some of the worst discrimination imaginable including torture, death threats, shunning by their families etc. (who in their right mind would do that if they did not conclude that it was necessary to live an authentic, honest life before God and others?), the fact that the bible is clear on the fact that those who live in love live in God and God lives in them (see 1 John 4) and that there are countless of testimonies of gay partners who against incredible odds hold true to one another in love.
Unfortunately, a shortsighted interpretation of bible verses out of context has caused indescribable suffering throughout the history of the church (think of Galileo, slavery women’s rights, etc.). The church has been wrong about its interpretation of scripture in those and other cases and whenever it did it departed from the highest command Jesus gave (to love God and our neighbor – as found in Luke 27). Augustine put it as follows in Christian Doctrine 1.35.40: “Whoever, therefore, thinks that he understands the divine Scriptures or any part of them so that it does not build the double love of God and of our neighbor does not understand it at all”. There have been thousands and thousands of gays who have been incredibly wronged by a wrong interpretation of Scripture, there have been far too many suicides, death threats, abuse (both physical and emotional) due to homophobia. Fear induces the worst of human behavior. Fear is also the one barrier to knowing the true heart of God. The bible says that “there is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear.” I know Living Hope ministry personally. I do not doubt that their leaders are well-intentioned based on their interpretation of Scripture. However, gay Christians and non-Christians alike, would be better served if we did not continue propagating an interpretation of Scripture incongruent with science and as several bible scholars have pointed out, not in line with the original manuscripts and the context in which the few often-cited passages, seemingly condemning homosexuality, appear. Rather, ministries such as Living Hope should help homosexuals gain a better understanding of who they are, help them gain trust and confidence in a creator who loves them and wishes to be in a relationship with them, and to point them to a moral lifestyle (ie. monogamous, committed relationships based on love and respect). Unfortunately, because homosexuality is looked upon the way it is, homosexuals often internalize the guilt, shame and fear they grow up with, and then often act out their negative self-perception in hazardous, immoral lifestyles since they believe they are worthless scum anyway and thus not worthy of a better life. Perhaps we should look at our own behavior that might contribute more than we may think to the very lifestyle we so readily condemn and judge. Did not Jesus say something about first looking at the log in our eye before pointing out the speck of sawdust in our brother’s eye?
I want to apologize for pointing out Living Hope ministries in my earlier comment. I was not trying to single them out here but had wanted to refer to ex-gay ministries as a whole. However, I just realized that I had failed to eliminate the mention of this specific ministry here since my post was originally written as a response to comments on another blog referring specifically to this ministry. My apologies again.
I advice you all to go to a Borders near you and pick up ‘God and Sex’. It’s a really good book that covers pretty much everything.
also just so everyone knows, “homosexual” didn’t show up in the bible until 1946 thanks to an anti-gay translator. It was never in the Hebrew, Greek, or Aramaic texts. Every piece of scripture that now refers to gays originally referred to lustful acts and prostitutes.
Sodom was destroyed because they were lustful (they didn’t care whether they got the angels or the daughters) and wanted the rape the new people in town. Their biggest crime was against Hospitality and mostly Love for their neighbor.
…I see a lot of inhospitality and Hatred in America now a days…maybe we might meet the same fate..
Thanks for your words Enrico! I agree.
@David – I will look that up. Thanks for the recommendation. I actually think I have that book but I am going to double-check.
God bless you both!
I think most anti-gay Christians who have commented here have yet to actually do a little research — beyond the hateful drivel that was passed on to them. I commend you, gaychristians, for being patient. For a while there I was irritated by the sheer ignorance. But anger only begets more anger, and this is something that I remember when I visit your blog.
To the anti-gays here:
Heterosexuality as a social construct — and an oppressive one at that — only began to exist in the later part of the 19th-20th century. That is why most Bible translations have become so corrupt in the recent years. Even if I am a Christian, I believe that many important readings have been left out of the Bible. Paul barely conceals his animosity towards Mary Magdalene in his writings. (I’m talking about Comparative Literature and Comparative Religion here.) Or perhaps it was the initial translator’s fault that it seems that way. That translator was human, limited and bound by his own conceptual lenses. Since I’m already discussing the humanity of the Bible’s handlers, I’d like to point out that it was also a male human being that decided what the final four gospels are. It wasn’t Christ himself who did the choosing. It was not even Peter, with whom He entrusted His church.
And by the way, I own six versions of the Bible. If I were to translate all of them in my mother tongue, which is not English, I’d come up with completely different translations for each.
Suggested readings (for cross-referencing, since I don’t believe that one should only take knowledge from one source, no matter how all-encompassing that source is):
Butler, Judith. Gender Trouble: Feminism and the Subversion of Identity. (New York: Routledge, 1999)
Katz, Jonathan Ned. The Invention of Heterosexuality, (New York: Dutton, 1995)
Foucault, Michel, History of Sexuality (New York: Pantheon, 1978) – This is actually a three-part series. Foucault is not easy reading, as even scholars get headaches plodding through his dense writings.
@malditera – thanks for the references! God bless!
As a Christian woman and writer, I tend to become saddened when I read well-intentioned yet anti-gay sentiment from my fellow Christians. A good friend of mine (who I knew was gay the moment I met him) denied his homosexuality because he not only feared losing God’s love, but he didn’t want to be hated or rejected by others – especially his brothers and sisters in Christ. Even more so, he longed for a wife and kids. He prayed daily for God to transform him. He tried dating women, of course it never worked. Finally, 10 years later, he accepted who he was. His brain does not function as a heterosexual’s. How or why this has happened to him is still fairly unknown to science and is certainly not clearly addressed in the bible.
As an aside, the term homosexuality has been improperly translated in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. Properly translated, it means “sexual greed or gluttony.” And may I say, I know SEVERAL Christians who suffer with heterosexual greed and gluttony. (I can’t find my exact reference at the moment – take it or leave it, I suppose).
We often become locked on the idea that God would not condemn homosexuality AND create homosexuals – therefore gays are “choosing” to be sinful. Yet, children are born with both sex organs every day, somewhere in the world. Often the doctor “decides” for them what they will be through surgery, regardless of what the orientation their brain has already determined. So, what do we assume God thinks of hermaphrodites? This is never addressed in the bible, so what can we possibly deduce? Are these poor individuals to live a life of celibacy because God condemns homosexuality? They can’t control how they were born – so now they must live a life without love in a committed relationship?
I, of course, believe in the words in the bible. But I also understand that their is context, not only historically, but in who is writing the scriptures and where the words are located in the bible. We have evolved and have genetic predispositions now that never existed in biblical times.
Perhaps, when God created Adam and Eve, we were designed to have sex only with the opposite sex. If not, how could we possibly populate the earth? But, the forbidden fruit was eaten, and we live in a fallen world and not a single one of us is the way we’re “supposed” to be. I will never be so arrogant as to tell a gay individual that they do not have a relationship with Christ. How would I have any idea? How disgusting.
As Christians, we must be diligent not to judge – especially with things none of us fully understand.
I’m a Christian. And a tolerant one. I believe that every person has the right to choose the path of their life. Choice is, after all, a God given gift.
My best friend in the world is a Lesbian. She grew up in a generational Christian home. And whilst I love her dearly and respect her life choice, she knows that I cannot agree with it.
You often direct people to a particular YouTube video, and I can see the point it is making. There are so many things in society that we do today, that according to parts of the Bible should be punishable. One oversight of this video however, is that we no longer live in Old Testament times. When Jesus died on the cross He ushered in a new era, one where the cavern between God and man has been bridged by His sacrifice. We live in New Testament Times. We live in a time of grace.
The God of the old testament is the same forever, but the grace provided to us by Jesus’ intercession means that we can have relationship with God.
You mentioned in a comment to someone that the Laws that we now live under are “Love the Lord your God”, and “Love your neighbour as yourself”. I agree.
As I said before we now live in New Testament times, and the New Testament also speaks out against homosexuality (Romans 1). If you do Love the Lord your God, then you do not go directly against what he has said. If you do then it is disobedience and rebellion.
I have no doubt that you have a belief in God, and I agree that God loves people, not matter what choices they make in life. But I do question why you completely dismiss or try to justify what has been laid out in the New Testament by God as a guide for our lives.
You seem like a genuinely good person, and I do not want you to think of this as any sort of attack on you as a person. But if you do indeed love God, then all I ask is for you to press into Him and ask for revelation on this topic.
Ultimately your life is between you and God, and no one can judge except God, but I would hate to think that such an obviously beautiful soul would continue to walk through life believing something that so many things in the Bible point at as being untrue.
gaychristians, I’m so glad that you found that support group/chat room in the early days of AOL.
In a world where there are so many Christians (and churches !) who judge and condemn God’s LGBT children, those groups are so vital.
Though I am straight myself, I have been part of such a group for 8 years, and now created such a group for gay Christians here in Europe, for people who don’t speak English. I have been involved with these groups precisely to bring love and support to God’s precious LGBT children. I’ve seen people there whose lives are broken because they have been rejected by their church or even families at times. I’ve seen people who tried getting married to someone of the opposite sex and who struggle with staying in the marriage, I’ve seen spouses whose lives are destroyed because they married someone who is gay and they never knew. I’ve seen people who tried to take their own lives because they can’t bear living in a world that condemns them.
Why on Earth would anyone “choose” to be gay and go through all this ?
A lot of things are sin, such as being promiscious, and so on, and that goes for people of any sexual orientation. But loving someone isn’t a sin, and wanting to be committed to that person isn’t. We don’t choose to fall in love, and people who are gay are no different.
I know people in my life who are celibate (both straight and gay), and when God really wants for someone to be celibate, He leads their live to follow that path. But only a minority of people are called to this. The majority (both gay and straight) are not meant to be alone, and I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that God blesses ALL Christ centered committed loving monogamous relationships… regardless of the gender of the two persons involved.
You have shown incredible kindness, patience and grace to people who replied to your blog gaychristians. God Bless you richly for that.
Alma, thank you for your very nice words. I don’t want to take any credit at all because I only write what I believe in my heart of hearts is true. God is love – that’s undeniably true. That’s what I will hold on to.
Thank you for people like you who understand that we are equal beings. “Christ-centered monogamous relationships regardless of gender” – AMEN TO THAT!!
Genesis 19:1-11 is a clear statement on the sin of sodomy/homosexuality. Unfortunately, there are many in the “Christian” community who have come to doubt, or even refute this fact. The homo-sexual movement has succeeded at clouding the issue through creative exegesis, ad hominem attacks, and genetic fallacies. Nevertheless, the Bible is clear.
I implore you to also listen to this sermon:
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=52092058183